A Response to Kyle Payne

Note: I’m getting angrier the more I think about his sympathy-grab. I may or may not have another post on this in the future. I’m really am sorry that I gave him such an easy time in the beginning of this post, though.

I was a bit hesitant to give Kyle Payne another platform by writing about his public statement on my blog, but I have some things to say. First, though, I need to get some things out of the way. Most importantly, I do not sympathise with Kyle. He’s sexually assaulted another person and that, in my books, is unforgivable. I do think he’s looking for sympathy in his post, though. Part of me wanted to feel sympathetic towards him, and that says to me that if he didn’t want people to sympathise, he didn’t write his post correctly. I feel it’s akin to directors asserting their films don’t promote rape when the rape scene marks the climax and/or is portrayed in such a way it arouses people.To me, Kyle’s search for sympathy (whether he admits that’s what it is or not), really takes away from his words. How are we to know for sure Kyle’s entire post wasn’t a search for sympathy? A last feeble attempt at grabbing someone who truly feels sorry for him and forgives him?

To make it absolutely clear, I’m not that person.

That said, and now that I’ve got the point across that we may want to question Kyle’s intentions in writing this (and, as a result, the content of the whole post), I think there are some points that we should look at. First, Kyle explains why, exactly, he’s written this piece for us (or, alternatively, the reason he wants us to believe why he wrote it):

I write this letter in the interest of dropping barriers, sharing openly and honestly a story that is very difficult to talk about, in hopes that doing so may bring peace, understanding, and hope to the lives of others.

Funny, I don’t see where numerous apologies fit in there, but whatever. I sure hope no one forgives him particularly, the woman he assaulted and the rape survivors who placed their trust in him. Considering Kyle’s post back from February, (Entitled “A Different Kind of Pain.” Puke.) it would seem Kyle is more sorry he’s been caught than sorry that he sexually assaulted another human being.

And really, look at this:

With a digital camera I kept with me regularly, I briefly photographed and took a few seconds of video of the woman’s breast.

I just love the emphasis (twice!) on how short the encounter was. It was “brief” and “a few seconds.” Because that makes it all the better, right?

But I digress.

If we’re to give Kyle the benefit of the doubt and believe the whole post wasn’t a sympathy-grab (which, again, I’m certain it is), can we really take anything noteworthy away from his words? Of the entire post, I can get this:

The act itself is not something with which I identify, nor are the interests behind it. Indeed, for some time following the incident, I could not believe what had actually taken place.

So, Kyle doesn’t identify what he did and he couldn’t believe it took place. Now, I don’t have a lot of experience or contact with rapists and sexual offenders, but wouldn’t they say the same thing? I mean, even if they supposedly weren’t trying to save their own skin?

This post has just experienced some epic failure. When I first read Kyle’s post, I thought there was something we could take away from it, but ultimately, the more I read into it, the more I see it was written out of selfishness. His whole post is about himself. He still calls himself a “male ally to feminism.” That makes me want to puke. If Kyle, a sexual offender, is a male ally to feminism, what the hell does that make me? And this:

As part of my attempts to make amends, however, I will not post any new material on my blog until such time that I have been welcomed back into a community of feminists.

Seriously?? This all just SPELLS the fact that he was seeking sympathy the entire time he wrote this. It was all “to make amends.” Well fuck that! I know I don’t stand alone when I say Kyle’s never going to be getting my warm “welcome back” gesture. I mean, seriously? You don’t make amends when you sexually assault someone! You pay for it for the remainder of your life, just as they’ll have to deal with your thoughtless actions!

Ugh. I’m sick of writing about this. I’m not going to edit it, because it sort of went from a typical piece into a rant. But really, Kyle? A piece about survivors of rape and sexual assault might have been welcome. Instead, you forced the spotlight on yourself, and to me, that shows you’ve missed the whole point. Give yourself another pat on the back.

14 Responses to “A Response to Kyle Payne”

  1. Amber Says:

    As part of my attempts to make amends, however, I will not post any new material on my blog until such time that I have been welcomed back into a community of feminists.

    This is the part that just leaves me fucking speechless. SPEECHLESS.

  2. Garrick Says:

    While I’m quite disgusted that Kyle did what he did, and I agree that his actions have nullified his ability to speak in regards to feminism. However, Kyle has used the platform he had in an attempt to explain what, even to him, is unexplainable. He attempted to throw himself on the mercy of public opinion and offered the only defense that he would every hear, from himself. That Kyle feels remorse is a start, that he should spend his life wallowing in self misery serves no purpose for anyone, especially the victim. I Kyle wishes to be ‘welcomed back into feminism’ then the only way to do that is to spend his time making amends for what he has done.

    Silence is not amends. Demanding his head solves nothing. Giving him a chance to make things better, not right, but better is the only way this wound can heal and scar. We all make mistakes, some are more unforgivable than others, but we all make them. Kyle deserves a chance to make his amends.

  3. RenegadeEvolution Says:

    the man is a self-serving jerk who takes zero responsibility for his actions. I hope he never gets invited back to a dinner party, much less feminism!

  4. Being Amber Rhea » Blog Archive » links for 2008-08-03 [delicious.com] Says:

    [...] A Response to Kyle Payne « Doing Feminism "I mean, seriously? You don’t make amends when you sexually assault someone! You pay for it for the remainder of your life, just as they’ll have to deal with your thoughtless actions!" (tags: kylepayne assholes feminism blogging rape abuse crime) [...]

  5. alesbianandascholar Says:

    Amen. I e-mailed him because whatever my strong feelings about that open letter, I decided to swallow them and politely make the suggestion that he not ever come back to rape advocacy or feminist work. If his argument is that his actions were caused by triggers from his childhood, well, he should understand that women working with him would be likely to experience a trigger when they find out that their advocate was an aggressor in the past. I like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, and assume that maybe at some point he will heal and become a better person, but the way to be a “big man” in this situation is, no matter how much you sympathize with feminism, to walk away from the feminist community. If he really wants to help women, he can do so by not directly involving himself. Give money to feminist causes, read feminist literature, stop other men when they make rude remarks or harass women, sure, but don’t expect the feminist community to welcome you back. Understand that we don’t know you personally, and that there’s no way for us to ever know when you’ve healed or when to trust you again, if ever.

  6. Hugo Says:

    I think sympathy can war with outrage in a case like this. Clearly, Kyle’s letter falls short of the mark. A shorter version, in which he took full responsibility for what he did and announced that he was withdrawing from the feminist world would have been much better. No matter what you have done, there’s always the “next right thing” to do; Kyle can do that next right thing by accepting whatever sentence is meted out — and accepting that whatever good he can do in the future cannot be done under the aegis of feminism.

  7. Renee Says:

    As part of my attempts to make amends, however, I will not post any new material on my blog until such time that I have been welcomed back into a community of feminists.

    Who does he think would ever welcome him back? He might as well blog because no on is ever going to read it anyway…piece of trash that he is.

  8. belledame222 Says:

    Garrick et al: Bullshit. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. And, what hysperia said:

    http://alterwords.wordpress.com/2008/08/03/as-the-globe-falls/

    In any case, no one who has abused the trust of vulnerable women by abusing their position ought ever to be placed in that position again, no matter what, and no matter the success of his “treatment”. That conclusion is not based upon my wish to impose punishment on Mr. Payne, that decision is based on an absolute need for commitment to prevent this particular perpetrator from abusing the trust of someone else, based on his position.

    It’s also based on empirical data [pdf]. For instance:

    On average, sexual offenders who received treatment were less likely to reoffend than offenders who did not receive treatment. Not all treatments were equally effective. Treatments provided prior to 1980 appeared to have little effect. In contrast, current treatments were associated with a significant reduction in both sexual recidivism (from 17% to 10%) and general recidivism (51% to 32%).

    That’s a reduction in recidivism. As long as there exists a possibility that a person such as Payne will re-offend, such a person should never be placed in a position of trust with respect to women or children. Period. Absolutely period. To do so would be criminally negligent.

    Contrary to popular opinion, rates of recidivism [pfd] for sexual offenders are lower than for other crimes (at least, rates of those charged and convicted). But some people, like me, think that may mean that the most effective “treament” is catching offenders and punishing them according to law. The reason I think that may work is because it interferes with the belief, common to sex offenders, that they are above or beyond the law, that they are acting in some private realm of shame and shaming. Once they become aware that their actions may be subject to public exposure and reproach, they quit, as the results are unsatisfactory. The power and control are gone. And it’s the power and control that are really in play. Kyle Payne is still trying to exert power and control through his blog writings.

    There’s your answer Kyle. You can’t ever come back. That’s the price you pay. It’s an awfully small price, compared from the one you’ve extracted from the woman (women?) you’ve criminally abused. But even if it weren’t, I wouldn’t care. A high price is called for. That Payne doesn’t know that is proof of the extremely early and limited state of his own counselling. Anyone aware of the damage done to them by sexual abuse and assault would know this. Anyone treating Payne from within a “feminist framework” would know this too.

  9. Rev. Bob Says:

    Doesn’t anybody in that state know how to say the word ‘”prison”? or “placed on state and national lists of sexual predators for the rest of your life”? or “permanent restraining order against reading or writing to feminist blogs and groups’?”

  10. When does someone deserve a second chance? « Doing Feminism Says:

    [...] does someone deserve a second chance? After reading Garrick’s comment on my response to Kyle Payne, I got to thinking: When does someone deserve a second chance when [...]

  11. PLEASE HELP the Victum Says:

    We found out today that the county attorney believes there will no jail time. WHAT?
    Please help…send your letters and comments to the county attorney and judge. The BV County attorney said today that only 2 emails have come to him and it looks like he will walk. WALK? to prison is the walk he should be taking. PLEASE HELP US HELP OUR NIECE.
    BV County Attorney Dave Patton
    Fax…..712-732-2009
    Email… dave@bvcountyattorney.org

    District Judge Don Coutney
    Fax.. 712-749-2700
    Case number.. Kyle Payne SECRO38923

    Thank you, from The victum’ s family

  12. GRad Says:

    You know, I love how you are all “deciding” how Payne needs to “distance” himself from women in the future. Did it ever occur to you that perhaps this is for individual women (people) to decide when they meet him? It’s not for you to dictate how women (or Payne, despite his crime he still has rights) should react to this. If he is ever placed in a real position of authority, then yes, it should be made public that he is an offender. However, whether or not he socializes and assists feminism and/or feminists will be up to those individual feminists and women.

  13. Payne Sentenced Says:

    GRad….please read the story the Storm Lake Pilot ran today, August 26…Payne got 6 months in jail and 13 years of supervision. He was in a position of authority at the college…(maybe not real to you..but real to the girls attending BV College). He helped rape victums at the college and he does need to “DISTANT” himself from women. He undressed and fondled my niece. He then filmed and photographed his “ACTS”. Then f he posted the pics and videos to his computers… (Not to mention what he did in a public building on video…) Iam not “Dictating” who a woman decides to see.. Iam merely warning women about the offender Kyle Payne and hope that they will have a chance to decide if they want to “socialize” with him, unlike my niece who did not.

  14. Lorelei Says:

    UGH THANK YOU. i wrote a post about how infuriating that post was but i still couldn’t REALLY put it to words. THANK YOU SO MUCH. yes, the ‘until i am welcomed back into feminism’ definitely sounds more like a DEMAND instead of a ‘god willing’ sort of statement.

    blahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!

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